Talk:Penguin Golf

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After all the below discussion, I went and designed a dexterity based golf game. Might need to rename it - Martian Golf? Martian Penguin Golf? IceGolf? Think I'll end up going with the last one.

--Nycavri 22:44, 3 June 2007 (EDT)

Discarded Ideas[edit source]

I'm was looking for my game to be a little more abstract than the below ideas. My thinking was each player with a "family" again. A tee area for all players to start, and the die as the hole, perhaps a foot away. On each player's turn, the previous player hands the current player one of the 3 penguins to play (2 after the first "shot" as one stays on the field as the ball. Penguins hit the ball differently:

- Babies Armada cannon-style, 3 "steps" in a zig-zag. Some distance but poor control.
- Papas, Armada cannon-style, 2 steps, the second in the same direction as the first. Good distance, some control.
- Mamas one step Armada movement-style. Shorter moved, great control in a wide arc.

First to touch the die/hole with the point of a penguin wins. (Although in practice this may be too fiddly. Perhaps first to touch the hole, period. Will try both.)

Need an spare tree to complete Papa and Baby moves, so 2-4 players with a Treehouse set.

(Idea to test: Cannot play through another ball, but may pass rather than go off in an unwanted direction, waiting for the opponent to "play through". Works for the theme, might make the game more strategic. See which way is more fun)

As a variant or advanced game, books/cups/etc. can be placed to narrow the playing area, create traps, hazards.

Not exactly Golf, but I like the continuation of the theme, and the opponent choosing the penguin that must be played.

I'm probably not explaining this well, and need to play around with it a little, but here it is for what it's worth. Once I can explain this better, I will move it to the game page as an alpha design.

Looking forward to your thoughts.--Nycavri 12:50, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

David Artman[edit source]

Personally, I don't see this as golf at all, anymore. It's almost identical to Titanice... in fact, I can't tell (from the above) how it's in any way different, except for piece ownership. BUT, I'll try to work with it for now (though, frankly, I think it's far TOO abstract--where's the golf, in this game? Golf without a course is, like... not golf).

First, if you're going to use Armada-like movement, but keep any semblance of golf-like "clubs" or "strokes", then I'd use the following arrangement:

  1. A Ball is a Small of your color, on its side.
  2. A Stroke is one or more Armada-like "steps" (varies per club).
    To make a stroke, place the club piece(s) per the rules below, then move the base of the ball into contact with the tip (or base, with Small) of placed club:
    • Small - Can only place 1 "step," but can be tip-to-tip with the ball (not ball tip to club base center, like in Armada) = maximum control, minimal distance
    • Medium - Can place 1 or 2 steps. Must use Armada placement rules, BUT the base of the club piece needn't be centered on the tip of the ball (or previous club piece, if 2-step) = more distance, still some control.
    • Large - Can place 1, 2, or 3 steps. Must use exact Armada rules: center of base of the club piece must touch the tip of the ball (or previous club piece, if 2- or 3-step) = maximum distance, minimal control
  3. A Link is any constrained area of play: a string laid out to delineate the fairway, a drawing on a battlemat, a row of spare pieces designating out of bounds.
  4. A Stymie occurs when you can not stroke your ball because it would cause one of your club piece placements to touch another player's ball or leave the link. You lose a stroke, but may choose when to play your next stroke (rather than being forced to hit if you're farthest away).
  5. Count stroke between tee off and finally touching the Hole--a Treehouse die placed at the end of the Link.
  6. Lowest number of strokes wins.

Of course, you realize that this virtually eliminates a huge number of golf staples: hazards and sand, the green and putting (unless you count using a Small as chipping and putting), fouls and drops, course management. But it's abstract (like you want) and might at least feel more like golf. Though I suspect a lot of links' club choices will be "large, large, small" or "large, large, medium" as there's really quite a bit of control with even normal Armada movement rules.

Thanks for the insight, David. I'll take all this into account when I test some more. You may be correct that a course is necessary. I like the "tip-to-tip" idea. --Nycavri 14:09, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Preliminary Ideas[edit source]

Okay a couple of things occurred to me while noodling on this one.

  1. Golf is not a tactical game. It's more a game against yourself. So, should Penguin Golf be strategic or more like a racing game (Which seems to make more sense to me..)
  2. How are we going to keep the penguin theme from becoming "fiddly"? The plays in Golf are all made while the player is standing still.. How will we incorporate the sliding penguins theme?

hmmmmmmm..GameBrain42 19:07, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Basic Mechanics[edit source]

(Root lines of section by David Artman 12:03, 30 April 2007 (EDT))

What is Golf? It's moving a wee ball into a hole using possibly the least efficient means ever: hitting it with a crooked stick.

So, we need a ball, a hole, and a way to hit it. Given the general style of gameplay (one man against the world) this game will likely shape up to be more of a miniature game than the other Penguin games. Brainstorm begins:

"Hitting" The Ball[edit source]

For basic mechanics, perhaps Martian Shuffleboard or Centrifice could work?

Basically, if "hitting" the ball doesn't require some dexterity, then it's going to be some kind of dice thing, I reckon. In other words, "moving" the ball, as if it were some kind of chess piece, isn't going to be evocative enough of golf gameplay, in my opinion.

The Course and Hole[edit source]

So if we have a ball flying through the air or sliding across the table, what is its end? A given "hole" on the course has a fairway, rough, out of bounds, green, and hole.

Would this be something that, perhaps, the players invent as they go along? Maybe the players take turns setting each hole up, trying to leverage their individual skills and trap their opponents? Or is a course somehow agreed to in toto, in advance, and played through?

Could a hole be defined with string? Or with various implements and things on an average kitchen counter?

Part of me kind of likes the idea of using Centrifice hurling, a Small for the ball, a shot glass for the hole, an arbitrarily laid out hole (drawn on a battlemat, made up of bits of construction paper shapes and blobs, etc) and some additional rules, to whit:

  1. Each centrifice from clear grass (i.e. the fairway) is done normally (I believe a Large is best for distance).
  2. A centrifice from the rough must use {harder to centrifice catapult; a Medium?}.
  3. A centrifice from the sand must use a {even harder to centrifice catapult; the unused Small (i.e. the game is four player with a TH set)?}.
    (Summation: your medium and large--and the spare small--are like "clubs".)
  4. Count each centrifice as a "stroke."
  5. Once on the green, a "putt" consists of trying to drop the ball into the shot glass with one's elbow planted at the ball's last lie and the dropping forearm straight up, but the dropping hand doing whatever will help the player drop into the shot glass. Imagine something between an arm-wrestler preparing to start the clinch and a free throw shot in basketball.
  6. All other normal rules of golf, e.g. out of bounds = -1 stroke and drop; furthest from hole hits first, etc.

Regarding Penguins[edit source]

As much as I like the Penguin Series, I don't see them as being in any way relevant to golf, per se, even if we use sliding a piece as hitting the ball (which is more like Penguin Croquet than Golf). As such, perhaps this game should be unthemed?

I have tried to Centrifice and personally found it very frustrating. I agree that the game you are talking about here doesn't work with the penguin theme, but I hope you will continue to work on it as an independent Golf game. I think you are onto something, especially the putting mechanism! Looks like we might need to start the category page for Sports. --Nycavri 12:50, 30 April 2007 (EDT)